Flat File CMS

[Harry]

From experience I can say the flat file doesn't scale too well at all.

[Scriptage]

Your opinion, actually it seems to happen quite alot, or so it would seem by the number of downloads I have had.

Well, people obviously aren't looking in the right place: free web hosting with free MySQL database

There are other reasons too, simpler backup (just copying files), easily transfered (just copy files), easily ported to a database if you wish (simply create a function to dump files to a database)

I was unaware that it was difficult to click 'Backup database' in CPanel or your other choice of server administration software.

no issues with sql injection attacks

If you use placeholder functions in your code you are not vulnerable to SQL injection attacks.

not having to store an open password for the database in your code that could be found through local exploit

That's a poor argument, if someone is going to use a local exploit they could do the exact same with your plain text CMS.

just because you see no need for something does not mean it's useless, it just means you see no use for it. there are a stack of people out there who want a low cost simple system to run on free or cheap hosts, these normally do not come with database support FACT.......

I never said it was useless, I just stated that it was not the best solution in the majority of cases.

Cool databases are scalable, i'm pleased, why would one have to be content with a business modal that does not allow for growth, why just because you store data differently does it mean you stunt growth, how do you come to this conclusion. If the site does grow to a point that you should be thinking about porting it to a database, and i'm talking about 100's of pages, then cool i'll write an add on for database support, and offer a tool to port the data................ your limited by your imagination buddy, flat file storage does not limit a business model, if offers a way to store data nothing more, should your modal change meaning a bigger site is needed, then cool i'll create you a tool to port the data.

Great you can create a tool that at this moment in time does not exist; I'm a client of yours, I've reached the peak I need to upgrade now but I've got to wait for you to develop a tool to transfer it to a database. What happens when you've made it? Is there downtime whilst the backup and update takes place? Do you run two systems side by side? If so are you going to build a tool to transition between the two? At this moment in time Razor CMS does not have an answer to these questions, when you do it will be a different story.

So razor falls short of the mark in most cases, i'm sorry you feel this, but it's your opinion nothing more, your welcomed to it but treat it as and pass it off as opinion and nothing more, or is this one of those if you disagree with me then your wrong moments your signature points too.

Certainly is buddy. At this point in time RazorCMS does not allow for growth, when you create the necessary tools to do so it will. Simple as.

FACT is my cms works, and works well, works for others, alot of others, is quicker than a database site of the same size on small to medium sites and is only limited by ones imagination, but then you already have a response for this don't you.........

I would be interested in learning the figures. Which database based CMS systems have you benchmarked? What methods have you used to bechmark, i.e., how many simultaneous calls?

pointless conversations are nothing more than pointless, I just feel that others need to hear both sides instead of just one.

I don't believe this conversation is pointless, I am intrigued as to why you believe that your method is faster; if you could provide some hard hitting figures I would be most impressed.

Regards

Carl

[smiffy6969]

Well, people obviously aren't looking in the right place: free web hosting with free MySQL database

Cool so anyone that wants free hosting and a cms HAS to use this place then, or maybe another you have found, MAJORITY of free hosts do not come with database support, I did not say all i said most. Doe's this mean that everyone has to use your choice or nothing then.

Ok lets start being padantic shall we seems like the way it's going

I was unaware that it was difficult to click 'Backup database' in CPanel or your other choice of server administration software.

Not all hosts use cpanel

Not all host provide backup tools

If you have to backup a database better off using phpmyadmin and downloading this way, as i have had backups in past not work when restoring as they updated teh admin tools and it broke, useing phpmyadmin works in both cases

hosts vary on what they offer.

If you use placeholder functions in your code you are not vulnerable to SQL injection attacks.

If you don't use SQL they certainly cannot either

That's a poor argument, if someone is going to use a local exploit they could do the exact same with your plain text CMS.

do what find my database password???, sorry don't have one, what find my admin password, it's encrypted, whats that database passwords are in plain text unless you create a tool that can encrypt then you have to store the key anyway. pfffff.

I never said it was useless, I just stated that it was not the best solution in the majority of cases.

and you wrote earlier

in the majority of cases it falls short of the mark

sounds pretty much like your saying it's useless most of the time, how much time have you spent with it.............

Great you can create a tool that at this moment in time does not exist; I'm a client of yours, I've reached the peak I need to upgrade now but I've got to wait for you to develop a tool to transfer it to a database. What happens when you've made it? Is there downtime whilst the backup and update takes place? Do you run two systems side by side? If so are you going to build a tool to transition between the two? At this moment in time Razor CMS does not have an answer to these questions, when you do it will be a different story.

you said flat file systems did not allow for expansion, I show you one avenue where it can be, i didn't say the system would fall down, I don't actually know the limit where it would break so it's not REQUIRED, just an option if it does slow down. Does this mean you have changed your business model, in which case you haven't outgrown it, it's changed.

See i can be pedantic too, fun isn't it,

Ok Ok OK, right lets tkae this right back to the biginning you said you could only create static sites with a flat file cms, your wrong wrong wrong wrong, I have proved this, regardless of whether you like it or not your wrong, WRONG, I can create dynamic sites with databases, flat files, whatever, how you store the content has NO BEARING on how you pull the data from storage, the storage is immaterial, it does not matter, the rest of the code decides how dynamic the site is, how the content is used, databases do not dictate how your data is served and thats the last I say on this matter.

you simply move on to another part of the discussion in order to mask the fact I proved you wrong, you then move onto, well you are re-inventing the wheel, so i show you this happens all the time, then you move onto something else, it's like you just want to argue about something, and you change subjects as soon as you realize your wrong becasue you can never be wrong can.

You are wrong, and your arrogance shows you to be closed to any other opinion than your own, I have already wasted precious time even trying to enlighten you a little.

I could go get numbers and figures, spend days drawing graphs, JUST to prove you wrong again, but then the people that use my system will loose my support for a while, work will not get completed, in the end brother it would be fruitless as you'll only move onto something else in the ever underlying quest to be right at least once in your life.

Never mind though, back to that work that noone wants to use, is pointless, and fails nearly all the time................

smiffy

[Scriptage]

Cool so anyone that wants free hosting and a cms HAS to use this place then, or maybe another you have found, MAJORITY of free hosts do not come with database support, I did not say all i said most. Doe's this mean that everyone has to use your choice or nothing then.

That's not what I said, I said there are plenty of places out there that offer free hosting with databases.

Not all hosts use cpanel

Not all host provide backup tools

If you have to backup a database better off using phpmyadmin and downloading this way, as i have had backups in past not work when restoring as they updated teh admin tools and it broke, useing phpmyadmin works in both cases

hosts vary on what they offer.

The point I was making is that it is not difficult to backup a database. There are plenty of free tools to back up databases if the host does not offer one.

If you don't use SQL they certainly cannot either

Indeed but it's a redundant point because you aren't vulnerable to attacks with SQL if you program in the correct way.

do what find my database password???, sorry don't have one, what find my admin password, it's encrypted, whats that database passwords are in plain text unless you create a tool that can encrypt then you have to store the key anyway. pfffff.

No, if someone has access to your file system they don't need your password to change your content.

sounds pretty much like your saying it's useless most of the time, how much time have you spent with it.............

How many downloads have you had then? I bet it's not even 1% of Wordpress, Joomla, PHPNuke etc. Most of the time there is a better CMS than yours available for use.

you said flat file systems did not allow for expansion, I show you one avenue where it can be, i didn't say the system would fall down, I don't actually know the limit where it would break so it's not REQUIRED, just an option if it does slow down. Does this mean you have changed your business model, in which case you haven't outgrown it, it's changed.

I'm saying that if you are expecting growth then it's best to go with a system which allows for growth. It's not a difficult concept to understand. As I said previously if you are happy with a small CMS then yes, yours does the job.

Ok Ok OK, right lets tkae this right back to the biginning you said you could only create static sites with a flat file cms, your wrong wrong wrong wrong, I have proved this, regardless of whether you like it or not your wrong, WRONG, I can create dynamic sites with databases, flat files, whatever, how you store the content has NO BEARING on how you pull the data from storage, the storage is immaterial, it does not matter, the rest of the code decides how dynamic the site is, how the content is used, databases do not dictate how your data is served and thats the last I say on this matter.

Actually I said this:

It all depends on what you're doing with the CMS; if you want a CMS that is useful for anything more than displaying static data then you need to be looking at some form of SQL compatible database, otherwise you need to worry about file locking and semaphores, you generally need to read a flat file top down so searching is heavier on resources than it needs to be etc etc.

and this:

All content that is stored is static, it's what you do with it afterwards that makes it dynamic; SQL makes this easier and quicker, I can cite specific examples if you would like.

So as I was trying to say, if you need to find relationships between documents (as is the case in many, many CMS with keywords and tags) then it is quicker to query a properly indexed database than it is to systematically open each individual flat file, read it top down and perform a pattern match etc etc. If you have comments on an article you can search the comments only with a database instead of reading in the entire file etc.

you simply move on to another part of the discussion in order to mask the fact I proved you wrong, you then move onto, well you are re-inventing the wheel, so i show you this happens all the time, then you move onto something else, it's like you just want to argue about something, and you change subjects as soon as you realize your wrong becasue you can never be wrong can.

If I moved on it is only because I thought that I had made my point, see above for clarification.

I could go get numbers and figures, spend days drawing graphs, JUST to prove you wrong again, but then the people that use my system will loose my support for a while, work will not get completed, in the end brother it would be fruitless as you'll only move onto something else in the ever underlying quest to be right at least once in your life.

Actually it's because your claims of greater speed are completely unfounded, you haven't benchmarked anything otherwise you would have been forthcoming with the research. The majority of my argument has been about the speed (see my clarification above) and ease of development (my comments about re-inventing the wheel) and this is your one chance to prove me wrong but sadly you cannot.

Never mind though, back to that work that noone wants to use, is pointless, and fails nearly all the time................

I never said any of those things, you really need to take that stick out of your arse. You will never compete with the likes of Joomla and Wordpress, take your CMS at face value for what it is, a solution to an infrequent problem.

Regards

Carl