Explain the difference between a logo and artwork

[col]

I have just completed 2 designs for a client who now refuses to pay as they say that i didnt design them as they gave me the brief !!!!

At the moment i am too stunned and fuming to respond as it is a woman and I dont want to let them know how angry i am as this may be seen as threatening.

She asked for 2 logo designs and was very prescriptive about the styles which were copied from other logos. When i tried to suggest a more original approach or even just tweaking the designs to give them identity she refused. I also advised her against using copied logo designs without some degree of interpretation.
So when completed and delivered she refused to pay saying that she cannot use them as she had been advised they could not be copyrighted.

We didnt have a contract so i do not think i have a leg to stand on and feel i will have to put this one down to experience but it has raised a question.

What makes a piece of artwork a logo? I had helped her develop a brand name (although i had advised her to change it as it was far too long!) including colours, fonts symbolic shapes and different formats

does the associated artwork not represent a logo?

[blueocto]

Could you post examples of what you mean? e.g. before and after?

[ganda]

i am quite interesting in knowing what the forum thinks about this.
I am not from this field, so I can not give an opinion.

[LeadMagnet]

As for the "they could not be copyrighted thing", that depends on how much of the design you copied. If you took lots of elements from various other logos and blended them into something completely new, then there's a chance that you're not breaching copyright on those, but if it's too similar to any one logo then you've got a problem.
If you could post what you created here, along with your 'inspiration'/'reference material' we can tell you if it's alright or not.

A logo is a visual element that is/can be visually tied to a specific company, product, brand etc... you see the logo, and if it's successful, you recognise the brand associated with it automatically. It's a sort of memory aid to form a useful link in people's minds.

Logos can be art, they're not 2 separate things. If what i've described above is what you created, then it's a logo. Whether it's art or not is a subjective thing. Some might say yes, some might say no.

You would know yourself if the extent of copying that you're doing is wrong, so if you were aware that what you were doing was illegal, then i have no sympathy for you.

However, if you're not breaching copyright, then what you have is original, even if it's inspired from other sources. At the time you created that body of work, you automatically gain the copyright to it. It's not that something "Can't be copyrighted", you either have it, or you don't, simple as that. There's no register or organisation that keeps track of copyrights, just people that spot its infringement and laws that support those people.

As for the lack of contract, yes, chalk that up to experience but try to reason with her if possible to salvage at least partial payment. However, if you infringe on copyrighted material, then a contract would not help you in the slightest bit. It would only get you in trouble. But don't let fear of punishment be the thing that stops you from stealing, let it be some common sense, morality, ethics, decency and respect for the work of real designers, take your pick.

[rossable]

Originally Posted by LeadMagnet

As for the "they could not be copyrighted thing", that depends on how much of the design you copied. If you took lots of elements from various other logos and blended them into something completely new, then there's a chance that you're not breaching copyright on those, but if it's too similar to any one logo then you've got a problem.

occasionally if the words or symbolisms used are to generic then they wont allow you to copyright it either. no one can copyright just one word but they can coppyright a symbol or the style the word is in. it's a big tricky thing that has loose and still developing laws to regulate it.

[LeadMagnet]

Indeed, very tricky. But generally, common sense will dictate the answer.