When a "contest" is not a contest

[Cwilk]

While most know about me and my company, I want to say a little more for those who don't know.

First of all, I've been designing professionally since 1984 (I was only 18). I've been working with every software on a Mac and PC since the day of its inception and I still own the actual software (so now my age is showing). I've won numerous awards for my design, artwork and logo creation. I have also been doing probono design work continually for no less than 5 nonprofits since 1995, including the one that I founded. I have been selected to judge advertising competitions and I have also held some competitions myself for traditional artists work (I have an art gallery). I have written lots of articles, been the art director for 3 companies and now I have my own company. My company brings in very good money; enough so that I don't have to work too many hours and I'm comfortable with the money I make. We have some very big name clients....and I mean big....

So, with that said, I don't feel that anyone has the right to tell me that what I'm doing on Logosauce is wrong. As I stated before, I do it for fun and it keeps my creative juices going. It's not really about the money for me. You'll also notice on my LS profile that I've designed quite a bit of logos in my lifetime and I've utilized LS as a portfolio to show clients.

I hope I'm not coming across as mean, but I honestly don't care what others think of LS, I rather enjoy it and I know others who do as well. It really is a hobby (as Paul had stated earlier).

[D856C]

How then do you feel about people like myself who do not depend on it for income for living and instead view it more as a creative hobby?

I want you to go up to any hobbyist and make the same kinds of requests made of logo designers. ....For custom design services. ...For research, possibly meetings, possibly revisions. ...For understanding either unclear or missing specifications other than "Just keep doing revisions and I'll know it when I see it."

Go to a hobbyist at a bazaar or craft show. Either its out on the table or it is not. ....to buy ....for money Custom designs cost more ...quite often a lot more. Quite a few hobbyists do custom work. You don't get that for free, either.

Go up to a rough looking biker selling leather goods and start making the same demands and insistences designers doing logos get. Badger him and push back everything he gives you with a flippant attitude. Put him on a deadline and treat it as if you're doing him a favor by even considering his wares.

Pull this on a 240lb tattooed Harley-riding hobbyist face-to-face. Then let's talk.

Or, to better reflect what a graphic design forum is, do the same thing at a Hell's Angels gathering.

It's not a hobbyist attitude people take with logo designers, on average. Were the process more informal, more accepting of the hobbyist's time and knowledge, more in the spirit of having fun, I'm sure you could get away with that arguement. That has nothing to do with the process we're talking about here.

Quite frankly, it's so embarrassingly transparent as a false rationalization. You may have purchased four or five items from a hobbyist for friends and family. When's the last time the notion even entered into your head to buy logo design (or any other design) services for businesses you'd like to, say, foster better relationships with.

I'm not saying make the design decisions -- although I suppose you could just have them design the logo you think they should have. (How many hobbyist or craft gifts get purchased but go unused?) But I was more in mind of a gift certificate where you purchase the time with a designer (so the recipient can make their own logo design decisions). This would be a nice thing ...that happens close to never in logo design.

Don't bother to do the mental backflips saying this isn't what you meant -- I can make a fair guesstimate based on experience. Logo design is flat out not how you treat the other hobbies you interact with. You know that. And now you know I as a a designer know that.

Most people don't suggest to hobbyists that displaying their crafts on a wall or mantle will create some flood of business. It is, however, about equivalent in promotion value. Add up every sale you've helped a hobbyist get. That's just about what the average web site is offering a logo designer.

[onesummer]

@D856C, you make some good points in that first part, though you kinda lose me later on..i say you're right on the part about once a designer starts agreeing to do revisions etc. etc., it's not longer a hobby, it is specwork. i'll keep that in mind for sure.