When a "contest" is not a contest

[Cwilk]

Originally Posted by lolly

I've been told some of the "clients" on logosauce are getting even cocky and playing people off against each other by making out via email that they like your design meaning you'll jump through hoops for them doing revision after revision then not picking you if you don't do enough. Taking the p*ss really.

I've gotten several emails from clients on LS. I didn't get the idea that they want to play on designer off the other, but now that you say that, I guess it's possible.

I don't normally do work on spec, but logo design is pretty fun. And if your logo doesn't get selected, why not use it for a recycle on another client's logo? LS is a great way to use your creative juices when you really don't want to do anything else.

[thecat]

Originally Posted by Jeff Fisher LogoMotives

I'm not a big fan of designers participating in "contests" for client projects or creating "spec" work as a condition of getting a client project. Here's a couple resources that might help explain my position:

NO!SPEC (Which has the Craigslist post mentioned above as its homepage feature right now)

When a "contest" is not a contest

- J.

Hi Jeff! Why am I not surprised to find you behind this posting ;-)

Yeah, there's a lot of, 'just wanna get a portfolio' around design contests - 'just wanna have fun doing something new'.

When you think of it, it's a bit of a waste really. Especially with all those non-profits going hungry.

Donating time to non-profits is prime for getting a real portfolio. And at times, getting to use a design style paying clients balk at (I know first hand, as one of my pro bonos won an award with a funky style my clients wouldn't go for - the one that made it into your book, remember?).

It also gives real exposure. Unlike at logo contest sites where your creation gets lost amongst the crowds of designers flocking around, piling up in a heap.

And lookie this ... my buddy Tom is in his fourth article on a Working Pro bono series.

(surprise! Yeah, but you all knew I was up to something, right? :-D

Next week is going to be the pro bono resources to end all resources - Where to Find Pro-bono Work. (I know, because I busted my butt finding and sorting through all available resources.).

We've even started a FB group on Pro bono Designers... where you can post your pro bono project. Or just meet up with like minded others and chat about whats available.

And there's more stuff coming ... promise ... with me, there's always more stuff. I like stuff. It's what I do.

[Creative Expert]

I don't understand why people think it is fun to enter spec contests when they could be getting real recognition with real legit contests and book submissions where their creativity gets published and millions of people get to see their work (and bonus, even hire and pay them real money).

Doesn't anyone understand that when they enter spec contests that they are not only doing themselves and the client a disservice but they are doing a huge disservice to the graphic design industry as whole?

All professional graphic design organizations are against spec work of all types, including spec contests. There's a very good reason for this and you can find out about it on NO!SPEC.

I can understand that non-pro designers find this type of contest attractive because it is just fun and games, right? But really, it's much more serious than you realize. So, please, reconsider other legit avenues to showcase your creative work.

The graphic design profession would thank you and so would I.

[TomDyer]

<< LS is a great way to use your creative juices when you really don't want to do anything else. >>

I used to think the same. It seemed like it was a victimless thing, until the day I got a call from a potential client who said "I've decided, after receiving a dozen quotes that are plainly attempts to rip me off, that I'm going to hold a contest instead."

And I was flabbergasted. Here was a startup company that was not only saying "12 strangers are trying to hose me," but also saying "I'd rather go with free than pay for it." And the truly sad part is that he had plenty of people who jumped for it. He's got a logo for an aluminum siding company that is....wait for it...a tree with his name on it scripted in Copperplate.

I think a lot of people who are "creatives" instinctively undervalue their own product because they just want it to be seen publicly. And it's worse in design because you can get a degree in design, spend four years chasing a certificate, and when you get out, you're competing with pimply otaku with a BitTorrent version of PhotoShop.

As a disclaimer: I'm self-taught. But I also never took food out of someone else's mouth while I was learning.

One of the reasons I'm writing my series on BoDO is to help up and coming folks get some solid stuff in their portfolios. LogoSauce is what it is -- but isn't it 100 percent more productive to work from beginning to end on a project in your own neighborhood, where word of mouth will lead you to paying gigs?

Anyway...mini-rant over -- and I promise I'm not just here to toot my own interests -- but always remember this: when you work, you should always get something back!

[D856C]

If they pay you nothing, they're not clients. Period.

If you don't have an interaction with the decision maker, and the ability to put forth the reason why your design is correct for the brief, you're not gaining experience in design. Basic graphic program operation, maybe, but not design.

It's not simply a matter of money, it's the use of contest as a firewall between the designer and the client. Completely eliminating the money as a consideration, the very idea should be at odds with every buzzword people throw around, from social computing, to interactivity, to the very underpinnings of an information age.

I won't even touch upon how laughable this makes books on the creative economy come off.

You're taking graphic dictation at best. Most of the winners of these contests might have some claim to telepathy or luck, but they have less claim to gaining anything relevant to the design process. Most of these contests are a subterfuge, not for the designer, but for the client.

The online contest is a way for the company not to have to think about design, about what they're trying to accomplish with the logo, and worse yet about the customers who are the real end-users of logos.

[onesummer]

Originally Posted by Creative Expert

...when they could be getting real recognition with real legit contests and book submissions where their creativity gets published and millions of people get to see their work (and bonus, even hire and pay them real money).

interesting, and where might these "legit contests and book submissions" be?

and, not to be harsh, but instead of sitting around on a forum complaining about people who enter such contests, why not spend that time marketing yourselves better, improving your skills, etc. etc. ? To me, you should be out there promoting yourself to the right clients, telling them why they should go with you instead of holding a contest. Or, if you're really gung-ho about this NO!SPEC stuff, you're going to have to go at it another way other than simply blogging or talking on forums. You won't get anything done doing it this way.

[onesummer]

Originally Posted by D856C

Most of the winners of these contests might have some claim to telepathy or luck, but they have less claim to gaining anything relevant to the design process.

and you know this....how? I'm sure you and the rest on here dislike me, as I do enter such contests, and yes it's a side hobby for me. I enjoy designing logos like I enjoy playing soccer, or I enjoy reading a book. So just because you guys can't overcome the problem of clients holding contests and amateur designers entering them, you come on here and complain about it? And I'm supposed to stop doing what I enjoy doing, because you can't overcome the obstacle?

It's not that I don't understand your argument. I've read Jeff's story, and I agree with alot of what he says. Businesses are better off hiring a designer rather than holding a contest. that's a no brainer. But If I were you, why not spend your efforts convincing them not to hold the contests, rather than focusing on the designers who enter them? It just makes more sense to stop the problem at its source. If nobody's holding contests, there aren't any to enter.

[Creative Expert]

Originally Posted by onesummer

interesting, and where might these "legit contests and book submissions" be?

and, not to be harsh, but instead of sitting around on a forum complaining about people who enter such contests, why not spend that time marketing yourselves better, improving your skills, etc. etc. ? To me, you should be out there promoting yourself to the right clients, telling them why they should go with you instead of holding a contest. Or, if you're really gung-ho about this NO!SPEC stuff, you're going to have to go at it another way other than simply blogging or talking on forums. You won't get anything done doing it this way.

Hello,

I'll answer your last question first. Obviously you don't know me or my background because I'm sure you would have asked a completely different question. Let me tell you a little bit about myself.

I've been in Visual Communication Design (Graphic Design) for over 15 years. I've worked with small, large and in-between businesses as well as with large corporations. I've worked both in-house and independent. I've won awards for my work, judged legit design contests, written articles, started industry related meet-up groups, advise and critque student's portfolios, participated in mentoring, and I am on an advisory board of our local college's Graphic Design Program.

There are many channels for getting the word out about the hazards of spec work and participating in forums is just one of them. I happen to also promote NO!SPEC on blogs, articles, colleges, presentations, with my clients, with my peers, my friends and family, etc. I do not just sit around and complain. I'm very active and very passionate about the industry I work in. I'm sure you would be too if your livelihood depended on it.

The only way to get the message out is to educate people about spec work. And I mean everyone, not just clients because as designers we should know better and it is our duty to educate others including buyers of design because, frankly, many of them really don't understand that this is not how business is done. You don't see doctors, lawyers, plumbers, or anyone else doing it do you? What they will do is what is called pro-bono work and this is one of the ways that ethic driven designers will do too instead of spec work.

Before you start making hasty judgments about NO!SPEC, I highly recommend visiting the site to see for yourself. It really is quite amazing the surmountable accomplishments this group has done for our industry. And yes, part of the success has been using channels like forums.

Now to answer your first question, visit NO!SPEC for more information about legit contests. Also visit Jeff's site to find a large list of book submission information. Besides these two avenues people can also check out Tom's ProBono articles on BoDo. And one other avenue is bartering. This is where you exchange your work with your client's work. One of my clients is a massage therapist and I'll tell you I love trading with her.

Please don't take my comments as attacking because they are not meant to be. They are offered in hope that designers and buyers of design will understand and make better ethical decisions when working with our industry.

[Creative Expert]

Originally Posted by onesummer

But If I were you, why not spend your efforts convincing them not to hold the contests, rather than focusing on the designers who enter them? It just makes more sense to stop the problem at its source. If nobody's holding contests, there aren't any to enter.

And the answer is that we do spend our efforts but we do it with both the spec contest and the designer. Because it's a two-way street. It's the responsiblity of both the spec contest working to change into a legit contest and the designer becoming an ethic designer.

[onesummer]

Thanks for the information, and clarifications. I obviously mistook for your the type who thinks they can just jump on a forum and start complaining, like you so often see these days. My apologies. Definitely helps to hear where you're coming from.

I have been on NO!SPEC before, though I admit not having taken the time to fully read the site. I'll try to do so in the future.

I'll also have to do some research, as I probably don't understand the entirety of the issue. And you're right, I'm sure I would have a different and more passionate perspective if graphic design was my livelihood for both myself and my family.

one last question then...How then do you feel about people like myself who do not depend on it for income for living and instead view it more as a creative hobby?