Apparently in need of a Speed Designer

[tommylogic]

A different outlook indeed... right now, I'm sure you think its all about the money. I mean lets face it, you're a hot designer, tops in your field and certain to outperform any of your colleagues in your market. You should certainly get paid for your services.

The point you make about it being for bottom feeders isn't really what I was trying to express.. yes there are a lot of recruiters (who fall in the same category, IMO) and quite a bit of people looking for deals.. including me. In this particular case, I approached from a more socialist point of view.. and not the money hungry capitalist pig approach.

I thought hey.. I absolutely LOVE the idea of skydiving. Unfortunately, it sure does cost a lot of money. And you know what, so does a good web site. If I can skip the whole process of involving Uncle Sam, then why not go for it. THAT is the point of the grassroots, hippie type of thinking I was referring to. I mean, even you as a capitalistic entrepreneur you are, could understand how beneficial this system is. I get mine--> they get theirs... Uncle Sam might get cut on his taxes a bit in this transaction, but I'm willing to bet that I get a referral from the Sky Diving company. That guarantees more business and ultimately more taxes & in the end everyone wins.

Why wouldn't I network??? Think outside of the box!!!

[LeadMagnet]

Pros:

• You get to skydive. Yay!
• Tax free. Yay!

Cons:

• It's almost the same as spending your hard earned money on skydiving, and as you pointed out, that's quite expensive. If you had the cash in hand the day before you were going to head to the skydiving place, would you still go? If so, then go for it.
• This person is likely to cause you major headaches because it's not going to cost him a thing to do so and push you for more and more.
• What about after-sales support? You going to accept payment in skydiving again? What if you don't have time to go skydiving again?

Pros:

• You get to skydive. Yay!

[tommylogic]

yeah, it's a case by case deal. I've traded a lot of business, shoot... with one company we built an entire shop from the ground up... based on trades. Paybacks for over a year on that deal with all the people who did favors. And yeah, you do get balled up in some of those, but in the end the end justified the means.

In this case, I'd have to say the promotional marketing is worth it. I mean, he'd certainly give me all the referrals & I'm sure if I had a client who wanted to go skydiving (that'd be an awesome business meeting, screw golf)... And this guy has a developer background so after set up (maybe one month of follow up assistance).. he'd be on his own.... unless I wanted to go skydiving again

[Zinni]

Tommy,

As a caution, I would write the guy an email after you are done working with him and let him know that you enjoyed working on the project and loved the skydiving, and that this particular situation was special because you really wanted to go skydiving. Be sure to tell him that you do not normally do this for clients (regardless of whether you do or not) and that if he ever referred what your normal charge would be.

While you would need to word this in your own way, this allows you to let him know that this was a special occasion and that will avoid you getting referrals with numerous other "offers" that you may not want. In my experience doing work for exchange leads to referrals that are hoping for the same deal. You might as well be preemptive and try to turn this guy into some good referrals.

[tommylogic]

...ummm yeah, I'll send him flowers and offer to blow him next time too as an added bonus.

Its simple networking.. what don't you get? You think I would tell everyone this guy gives free skydiving if you do him favors. Of course there would be the obligatory legals ahead of time. I mean insurance alone, can you imagine his insurance if I didn't sign some sort of contract. And of course I wouldn't give him a site without the same. You have obviously never done business trades... if you install electrical in my house, you're still liable if my house catches on fire.. money exchanged or not

... I swear...

[Zinni]

thats not what I am saying at all...

I am saying he is just going to refer you to people who will want to offer you something that they do as a trade. Those things could be shitty and not worth your time. The guys is going to say "I traded skydiving for a website with this guy" i'm sure you could trade your car detailing for a website too.

Probably not the referrals you are looking for, at some point you need to actually make money to maintain a business.

[LeadMagnet]

I disagree Zinni, i wouldn't say that to him at all.

A): Let's say, if Tommy does nothing afterwards, he gets X requests through that job. Some of which expect to be in trade, some don't.

B): If he sends that warning notice He'll get X - Y requests. If he could have gotten some of those Y clients (the ones who'd like to pay in trade) to look at his work and talk to him, then that's his foot in the door. He has the chance to win them over and turn a trade for trade job into a trade for cash job.

The only reason you'd add that notice is if you think that X in situation B would be greater than X in situation A (i.e. some people would be turned off the idea of hiring Tommy because all of a sudden he's not doing trade for trade anymore). I don't think that would be the case, or at least would be negligible compared to the potential gains by winning over some trade for trade clients.

In my mind, not giving that notice to the skydiver guy would leave your options open to much more business.


(my mind is seriously fried from doing research and taking notes all day, so excuse the way i'm writing)

[Zinni]

I can agree with that thinking... it makes sense at least then you make the contact.

[tommylogic]

Originally Posted by LeadMagnet

...X in situation B would be greater than X in situation A ...

wow, yeah I forgot the simple math approach of explaining this..

you forgot to factor in the function of time.. the integral from a to b of f-of-x with respect to x
Although we know this would be more of an exponential derivative equation as defined by a Taylor Series ...

.

Or simply put..

The exponential function ex as the solution y to the equation


In other words.. given time; Clients build Clients

holy sh*t.. didn't any of you read "Fountainhead"
.... "I don't intend to build in order to have clients; I intend to have clients in order to build" [Howard Rork]

[LeadMagnet]

what? what? what?
Your math is bolony i say, BOLONY!